The Great Immigration Debate: The Liveblog

Welcome to the L&D's first attempt at liveblogging one of our debates / smackdowns of the CU College Republicans. If you're reading this now, it means you're stuck in a 7-10 film class watching something artsy and in Flemish, so...we'll try to be slightly more edifying than that. Tonight's subject: immigration. We'll try to keep stage-rushing to a minimum.

Dems debaters: Greer Feick and Linda Magana.

9:05 Roone is surprisingly full for a student event. And free food was just promised by someone. So if you're reading this and not in the Flemish cinema class....come. Now.

9:12 Josh Lipsky is standing tentatively at the podium. Diana from CR is...no, wait, coming back, smiling awkwardly - this could very well be it. And only 12 minutes late.

9:15 OK, false alarm. Introductions now. The CR cheering section is (of course) small, but they sure are vocal. And suited up. Alastair from the CPU is announcing the format: opening statements, 35 minutes of CPU-created questions, and then questions from the audience. Apparently, Alastair can use his discretion to extend debate on a question - the committee on Presidential debates could learn a thing or two.

9:19 Opening statements. Linda comes out swinging, bringing this debate where it ought to be - the increasingly squeezed out middle class. Now Greer on terrorism - not a single 9/11 hijacker got into this country illegally. Sweet.

9:21 CR opening: didn't know you could end a sentence with the word "um." Seems they're in favor of the kind of guest-worker program their own party killed this summer. And for paying unnaturalized aliens below minimum wage - because honestly, who needs to both eat and have shelter, right? Pshhh.

9:28 The Republicans have already begun conflating national security issues with immigration. The Dems responded by excoriating the Republicans for--get this--misrepresenting the Cato Institute. Greer just got a round of applause for declaring that walls don't work in America.

9:30 Lauren of CR just came out against car insurance. The t-word elicits chuckles.

9:33 The CR board has just applauded their debaters for being non-white. After coaching them not to answer the question on sustaining the white majority. Greer's rebuts with history, 'cuz facts don't lie.

9:35 Greer just took the Republicans to task for pretending not to see xenophobia in immigration issues while at the same time inviting speakers like Jim Gilchrist to campus.

9:36 The Dems are outlining the rights they would like to see for immigrants--minimum wage, health care, and driver's licenses, yes; voting rights, no. We are pro-safety and pro-public health; let's see how the Republicans conflate that.

9:37 Of course, the Republicans are going after the idea of issuing driver's licenses to illegals or offering them minimum wage protections as clearly impossible--obviously they are unfamiliar with existing state laws. Illegal immigrants contribute economically to our country...they just don't exist.

9:39 The CR's Lauren wants to get foreign nationals to come to jobs that we can't get Americans to do...but want to build a wall in Texas. Because that's consistent.

9:41 The Republicans just argued that a guest worker program without a path to citizenship will increase the cultural exchange between our two nations (presumably, the United States and Mexico). This is accurate--the exchange of immigrants coming here to work in horrendous conditions for slave wages would continue to thrive.

9:42 The Dems are arguing against vigilante justice on the border. Presumably the Republicans will agree... They are also supportive of measures ensuring that the human rights of immigrants are not violated.

9:43 Republicans want to make it more difficult to cross the border--the same policy that has caused immigrant deaths to skyrocket, but has failed to actually stop immigration at all. Lovely. The Dems are responding that a large portion of illegal immigrants entered legally and have stayed illegally--the Republicans retort that their cute little guest worker program will solve that issue. Right.

9:45 Amnesty for certain groups of immigrants? What's going on CR? Linda of the Dems is actually answering the question, bringing things back to human rights and poorly-trained police.

9:46 Dems come out against NAFTA, because American farm subsidies (boooooo) are killing Mexican agriculture. A very coherent, concise, and effect answer from first-year Linda. Props, freshie. CR's response: the Mexican economy is "improving" (like the US stock market this summer?) and NAFTA is "working" (right)

9:49 The Dems are talking about the 80,000 unfilled unskilled labour jobs in California this year and saying that the issue of immigration is not entirely based around citizenship, but also around economics. A path to citizenship, they say, will only ensure that they actually have some rights when they arrive. The Republicans say that, unfortunately, they DO think that the path to citizenship will increase immigration. Wait, I thought they didn't oppose immigration.

9:51 "Require that they learn English" Wow, it took the Republicans almost an hour to throw that one out! They are arguing that bilingual education prevents people from entering our culture--right, American culture is inextricably tied to failure to learn more than one language. Well, maybe the American education system. Greer has just cited Bush's claim that the Senate bill to make English the official US language was the "goodest" thing he had heard in a long time.

9:54 Dems' again demonstrate an understanding of the big picture - building a wall would hamper diplomatic relations with Mexico. Which, contrary to popular Republican beliefs, we need. Also, anyone think it's funny that for all their talk of the importance of 'border security', CR hasn't mentioned Canada once? Just sayin.

9:57 Republicans: Where is your money coming from? TAXES! Really, did they just say that? They also just said that the massively expensive border wall will pale in comparison to the cost of the Iraq War. Yes, true... Is this really a Republican argument? It's telling that they have to run in the opposite direction from their own policies. Greer just pointed out the contradiction between Republican tax policy and immigration reform ideas.

9:59 Linda is arguing in support of the DREAM Act, which would ensure that immigrants are able to contribute to society as educated individuals (what the Republicans pretend that they want). The Republicans want the DREAM Act restricted to people who are already inside the borders (just like the Reagan amnesty program, right? These guys need to pick up a copy of the GOP's talking points).

10:01 CR finally says it: immigrants who cross the border deserve death. And where do they break with Gilchrist, exactly? Now the Canada question is asked, and CR's got a great response: no one's crossing that border, and we don't need to up security (like Bush's burdensome new passport policy does, for instance). Greer points out the obvious: terrorists, like the Millenium bombers, cross from the Great White North. And not Mexico.

10:05 The Republicans propose "other measures" for "dealing with" employment of illegal immigrants, but they don't list any. Maybe next question. The Republicans are arguing that we should make it so American citizens will WANT the jobs that illegal immigrants currently fill. By...raising the minimum wage, perhaps? I wonder how they'd feel about that. The Republicans are arguing something about paying more to workers, but Greer asked them up front if they want to pay higher wages and they said no. What? I'm really confused.

10:12 Greer brings back the middle class focus, for the 5th time this debate. And the Republicans wonder why they're losing so much electoral ground...

10:14 Closing statement time! That debate sure went out with a...fizzle, we have to say. But Lauren's repeating her talking points so let's recap: Guest workers, a 'path to citizenship', fines on employers (whatever happened to laissez faire?) , keeping out the nonexistent terrorists, and letting more Mexicans die in the desert.

10:15 The Democrats respond, sensibly - help develop foreign countries to lower the incentive to immigrate illegally. More civil rights, more human rights, and of course, the middle class - now these are values.

-Stephen Cox and Jacob Taber